IRC Chat : 2011-09-01 - OpenMRS

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02:43:25 <morristic> Anyone around?
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03:58:57 <OpenMRSBot> Recent updates in the world of openmrs: On Twitter: OpenMRS: Join us tomorrow for the first meetings of our new #OpenMRS Implementers and Community forums. Info: http://t.co/WEU5LSB #HealthIT <http://twitter.com/OpenMRS/statuses/109104995449835520>
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04:18:46 <surangak> hi djazayeri r u really here ?
04:42:27 <djazayeri> I am here now surangak
04:42:40 <djazayeri> morristic: I'm here now too. :-)
04:42:49 <surangak> hi djazayeri :)
04:43:17 <surangak> djazayeri, I was wondering, when are u planning to start on our ticket
04:43:27 <djazayeri> remind me which one
04:43:34 <djazayeri> there's one you commented on last week, right?
04:43:51 <surangak> djazayeri, sorry, i meant https://tickets.openmrs.org/browse/TRUNK-2588
04:44:03 <surangak> djazayeri, Generic mechanism for doing Attributes and Attribute Types on many classes. (Review code,
04:44:07 <djazayeri> oh, that one.
04:44:11 <djazayeri> Not sure.
04:44:19 <djazayeri> It has to happen before 1.9 is released, of course...
04:44:36 <surangak> djazayeri, no probs, I was just wondering....
04:45:50 <djazayeri> Yeah, it's going to involve actually thinking about things, and I've been too slammed with different things to focus. :-)
04:48:01 <surangak> djazayeri, I know, dont worry
04:48:17 <surangak> djazayeri, If we can agree on the plan, the rest of the work will be a breeeze :-)
04:48:28 <djazayeri> It should definitely happen in the next 6 weeks.
04:48:40 <djazayeri> but that's all I can tell you
04:48:55 <surangak> djazayeri, I'll be around, but im generally not on your exact time zone :-D
04:50:21 <djazayeri> When we eventually decide on a date, will you be able to make the Design Forum call?
04:50:32 <djazayeri> it's 2pm ET
04:51:02 <djazayeri> on Wednesdays
04:52:15 <surangak> djazayeri, Ill do my best to..
04:52:26 <djazayeri> okay, well, we'll warn you what week it'll be
04:52:27 <surangak> djazayeri, i think that will be very late at night in Sri lanka
04:52:42 <surangak> djazayeri, so i will be at home, and the net connection will be very slow...
04:52:57 <surangak> djazayeri, so i'll definitely be on IRC, and on adobe connect...
04:53:17 <surangak> djazayeri, but i might get disconnected once in a while :-(
04:53:32 <djazayeri> if you have a cellphone we can probably call you on a particular call
04:54:10 <surangak> djazayeri, Ill do my very best to stay late at office on design call day :P
04:54:22 <surangak> djazayeri, but dont tell anyone :D
04:54:30 <djazayeri> okay, as I said, we'll warn you which week it is. :-)
04:54:48 <surangak> djazayeri, no problem, Ill be around
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10:17:09 <dkayiwa> hi bwolfe
10:17:37 <dkayiwa> bwolfe: can an encounter have a null location?
10:20:27 <bwolfe> hmm, I think so
10:20:34 <bwolfe> I think thats only recent though
10:20:38 <bwolfe> dkayiwa ^^
10:20:45 <dkayiwa> bwolfe: how
10:21:41 <bwolfe> I think the argument was that it could be a "phone" encounter
10:21:44 <bwolfe> but I can't remem er
10:21:54 <bwolfe> easiest way to tell is to look at the db schema
10:22:02 <bwolfe> if encounter.location is nullable, theres your answer :-p
10:22:05 <bwolfe> (or the hbm mapping)
10:22:42 <dkayiwa> ok :)
10:23:43 <dkayiwa> when you said yes, i quickly did run to the database to prove you wong. But i lost it :(
10:25:40 <bwolfe> :-D
10:25:44 <bwolfe> never doubt me dkayiwa!
10:27:32 <surangak> bwolfe, I have learnt that lesson very well :D
10:27:38 <dkayiwa> bwolfe: hahahahaha. i have learnt the hard way :)
10:27:47 <surangak> bwolfe, I dont know how you remember so much of this stuff
10:28:19 <bwolfe> why're you askinf dkayiwa?
10:28:25 <bwolfe> surangak, its a curse :-p
10:28:35 <bwolfe> I live and breath openmrs...and have for 6 years
10:28:37 <dkayiwa> bwolfe: why am i asking?
10:28:58 <bwolfe> yes
10:29:11 <dkayiwa> bwolfe: i asked because i all along thought encounter location can never be null
10:29:25 <surangak> we hope you will be around with us for many dechades to come :P
10:29:26 <dkayiwa> bwolfe: never knew that it was relaxed recently
10:29:50 <dkayiwa> surangak: just pray for God to give him life :)
10:30:53 <dkayiwa> bwolfe: because every time i passed in null from the xforms module i got into trouble :)
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10:38:03 <bwolfe> dkayiwa, heh, just because its allowed doesn't mean there aren't other places that demand it :-p
10:38:31 <dkayiwa> ooooooohhhh :O
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12:27:35 <OpenMRSBot> Recent updates in the world of openmrs: New Changeset: OpenMRS (trunk): Changed interface method name for the EncounterVisitHandlers - TRUNK-2612, TRUNK-2609 <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/OMRStrunk/~3/vcoAiKO8QfM/OpenMRS>
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12:59:39 <OpenMRSBot> Recent updates in the world of openmrs: New Changeset: OpenMRS (trunk): "Assign encounters to existing visits but don't create new visits" implementation of EncounterVisitHandler - TRUNK-2610 <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/OMRStrunk/~3/YBI7yLQutcA/OpenMRS> || New Changeset: OpenMRS (trunk): Adding util method for getting first minute of the day <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/OMRStrunk/~3/eigjCYACty4/OpenMRS> || New Changeset: OpenMRS (trunk): Add an includeInactive boolean parameter to VisitService.getVisits method - TRUNK-2626 <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/OMRStrunk/~3/rluLAYLYDz8/OpenMRS>
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13:01:58 <r-friedman> djazayeri: good morning
13:02:14 <r-friedman> djazayeri: openmrs university is where you learn how long things take the first time you do them
13:02:49 <bwolfe> r-friedman, I don't think djazayeri is awake yet
13:03:21 <r-friedman> bwolfe: yeah, i meant to ask him if he was at the end of an all nighter or the start of a new day
13:03:57 <bwolfe> neither, he's "sleeping in"...probably until that 6am call in an hour :-p
13:04:06 <bwolfe> or does that call start now?
13:04:18 <downeym> Implementers Meeting happening now: https://wiki.openmrs.org/display/RES/2011-09-01+Implementers+Forum
13:04:25 <OpenMRSBot> <http://ln-s.net/98a_> (at wiki.openmrs.org)
13:04:39 <r-friedman> bwolfe: that's now
13:04:48 <bwolfe> oh, whoops
13:04:53 <dkayiwa> :)
13:05:04 <dkayiwa> thats how i missed the one for yesterday
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13:55:37 <djazayeri> r-friedman: I'm awake now. :-)
13:56:13 <r-friedman> djazayeri: too late for the ijmplementers meeting, go back to sleep
13:56:33 <djazayeri> actually I was listening to the last 10 minutes of that
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14:02:34 <OpenMRSBot> Recent updates in the world of openmrs: New Changeset: OpenMRS (trunk): TRUNK-2596: Add an Edit Person page ... <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/OMRStrunk/~3/vNMrzkH9Npc/OpenMRS> || New Changeset: OpenMRS (trunk): Removing unnecesarry decimal point for "Assign encounters to existing visits but don't create new visits" implementation... <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/OMRStrunk/~3/2_Pid_Vp46g/OpenMRS>
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14:31:15 <cptplastic> hi
14:31:17 <downeym> Hi cptplastic and welcome to the #openmrs IRC channel.
14:32:12 <cptplastic> In the UnitedStates whats the laws on HL7 or HIPPA
14:32:27 <cptplastic> Is open MRS approved?
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14:33:53 <cptplastic> Hi
14:34:01 <bwolfe> hipaa laws are complex. we haven't done in-depth analysis ourselves, but there are US implementations, so it should be
14:34:26 <cptplastic> I am acually a member of HL7 International
14:34:59 <cptplastic> I can help and look I just dident know if anyone took the time to validate that
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14:36:04 <bwolfe> what does hl7 international do?
14:36:58 <cptplastic> Its a governed law federal acually that says all medical fields will use data in this mannor
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14:37:32 <cptplastic> so that way my hospital in Washington can use your records from Asia and visa versa
14:37:42 <bwolfe> this is part of the obama rebate for health systems? That they must understand hl7 ?
14:37:51 <cptplastic> yep
14:38:03 <cptplastic> And its a pain in my butt
14:38:04 <bwolfe> if only it was that easy to transfer records. :-)
14:38:39 <cptplastic> i know but the fact that you guys are developing the way you are it should be easy
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14:41:58 <cptplastic> and whats funny is they charge you for the rules
14:42:06 <cptplastic> why wouldent they
14:44:06 <bwolfe> what do you mean by "rules" ?
14:46:05 <cptplastic> There is currently 5 standards
14:46:19 <cptplastic> and this is what is says
14:46:30 <cptplastic> The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services published the Final Rule for Health Information Technology that included an Initial Set of Standards, Implementation Specifications, and Certification Criteria for Electronic Health Record Technology. The following HL7 standards are listed in the HHS' Final Rule. The table below briefly describes the purpose that each of the four standards will fulfill.
14:47:03 <cptplastic> Submission of lab results to public health agencies
14:47:12 <cptplastic> Patient Summaries
14:47:23 <cptplastic> and messaging
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14:48:08 <cptplastic> here is what messaging says
14:48:23 <cptplastic> HL7's Version 2.x messaging standard is the workhorse of electronic data exchange in the clinical domain and arguably the most widely implemented standard for healthcare in the world. There have been seven releases of the Version 2.x Standard to date.
14:49:22 <cptplastic> it covers everything from Patiant Demographics to Patient Care and Prob oriented records
14:50:29 <cptplastic> I know that every hospital in Oklahoma has to follow this HL7 standard
14:51:26 <cptplastic> if somehow we could stamp HL7 compliant on this would mean all the difference
14:52:16 <bwolfe> right, but being able to receive/send hl7 is only part of the solution. you also have to map each data element to the same standard so that both ends know language they're talking in. the other part is to know which parts of the hl7 message is actually implemented and which of the extra fields work or not
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14:52:43 <cptplastic> Because this will not bill a insurance company directly you dont have to worry about that
14:52:49 <bwolfe> !seen docpaul
14:52:49 <OpenMRSBot> bwolfe: docpaul was last seen in #openmrs 8 weeks, 5 days, 22 hours, 57 minutes, and 43 seconds ago: <docpaul> busy busy developers. :)
14:52:54 <cptplastic> you are right
14:52:56 <docpaul> :D
14:53:09 <bwolfe> welcome back docpaul
14:53:15 <docpaul> good to be back. :)
14:53:15 <bwolfe> you've been missed
14:53:20 <docpaul> i created this channel. :)
14:54:10 <docpaul> janet: we must talk!
14:54:57 <bwolfe> jriley ^^
14:56:04 <docpaul> janet: do you relate with INSTEDD at all?
14:56:20 <jriley> docpaul - Ok! Can we talk after the meeting? I'm looking at too many screens
14:56:31 <docpaul> shore
14:56:46 <jriley> Thanks!
14:57:15 <docpaul> cool, is that kimando from Nairobi? :)
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14:58:42 <bwolfe> docpaul, it tis
14:59:36 <docpaul> hi cptplastic : what is your first name? :)
14:59:47 <cptplastic> Jason
14:59:55 <docpaul> hi jason, what brings you to openers land? :)
15:00:01 <docpaul> er, openmrs...
15:00:09 <docpaul> damn osx lion spell check
15:00:25 <cptplastic> Love the program, I am a programmer for the goverment
15:00:38 <docpaul> we are very happy to have you!
15:00:40 <cptplastic> I was looking into the HL7 stuff
15:00:52 <docpaul> in what way?
15:00:59 <cptplastic> seeing if I can pass this off as HL7 compliant
15:01:58 <docpaul> sorry, pass what off? :)
15:02:52 <cptplastic> If this was used in a office to store records I was looking into the standrds of the data and moving it around.
15:03:17 <kimando> @docpaul: we only have one Kimando in Kenya..
15:03:23 <docpaul> any question I can answer for you? :)
15:03:30 <docpaul> hey kimando!
15:03:33 <kimando> am cool
15:03:45 <bwolfe> docpaul, this == openmrs
15:03:59 <bwolfe> cptplastic, are you based in Oklahoma ?
15:04:03 <cptplastic> yes
15:04:16 <cptplastic> OKC
15:04:31 <cptplastic> Thats Olklahoma City
15:04:35 <cptplastic> :0
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15:05:08 <docpaul> openmrs uses HL7 in quite a few ways, but it depends on what "compliance" is… does it handle all message types? nope
15:05:25 <docpaul> no need for that in most settings that we work within
15:05:31 <cptplastic> true
15:05:43 <docpaul> we're pushing it as it is using it in the settings that we do
15:05:52 <docpaul> but we're regenstrief geeks, and so that's how we roll
15:06:15 <cptplastic> lol
15:06:33 <cptplastic> what about a WebService for soap requests
15:06:40 <bwolfe> !hl7
15:06:41 <OpenMRSBot> bwolfe: "hl7" --- Read about HL7 at https://wiki.openmrs.org/display/docs/HL7
15:06:45 <bwolfe> !webservices
15:06:46 <OpenMRSBot> bwolfe: Error: "webservices" is not a valid command.
15:06:47 <docpaul> have you seen the web services module?
15:07:09 <cptplastic> no but I will
15:07:22 <cptplastic> I found this today and im excited
15:07:50 <cptplastic> I write Air navigation software and have doctor pals that this is a godsend
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15:10:17 <cptplastic> Ill be adding this to Eclipse world very soon
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15:11:04 <cptplastic> well
15:11:15 <cptplastic> someone has my name
15:11:17 <cptplastic> jjohnson
15:13:22 <jriley> docpaul , yes, I met the INSTEDD folks in Phnom Penh. An impressive bunch!
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15:14:13 <jriley> docpaul, are you Paul Biondich? If so, have you gotten the feedback you need about documentation?
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15:15:34 <r-friedman> cptplastic: hi i am in govt health it
15:15:58 <r-friedman> i spent last week at a conference with all the people implementing the office of national coordinator policies
15:16:11 <r-friedman> health information exchanges, beacon program participants
15:16:39 <r-friedman> spent yesterday pm watching meetings of clinical lab advisory committee re lab data reporting
15:16:52 <r-friedman> anything i can help you with in navigating this mess?
15:16:52 <bwolfe> jriley, paul got kicked. yes, he is biondich
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15:17:58 <r-friedman> !seen cptplastic
15:17:58 <OpenMRSBot> r-friedman: cptplastic was last seen in #openmrs 6 minutes and 41 seconds ago: <cptplastic> jjohnson
15:18:11 <cptplastic> SWEET
15:18:28 <cptplastic> r-friedman:
15:18:34 <r-friedman> yep
15:19:17 <cptplastic> is the standards the same for like massage and chiropractics <---SP?
15:19:43 <r-friedman> yum, a massage message
15:19:56 <r-friedman> electronically order me some
15:20:05 <cptplastic> anything that reports to insurance should follow HL7 right
15:20:05 <jriley> bwolfe, I opened https://tickets.openmrs.org/browse/TRUNK-2623 and submitted a patch. I'm unable to set anything to "request code review" , so, this is me manually requesting a code review.
15:20:15 <r-friedman> i guess they'd have to come up with an implementation guide
15:20:31 <r-friedman> certainly if there is billing, there have to be cpt codes
15:20:45 <r-friedman> and cpt codes i think are moving to snomed
15:21:00 <cptplastic> so you can bill from this
15:21:11 <r-friedman> "this"
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15:21:16 <cptplastic> OpenMRS
15:21:56 <cptplastic> I think I got it now
15:21:58 <r-friedman> at the moment, I believe we are only supporting ORU type messages, with patient, obs group, obs, order messages
15:22:15 <cptplastic> yes I just seen that in the documents
15:22:21 <r-friedman> segmengts i mean at end
15:22:23 <cptplastic> LRN2 RM
15:22:28 <cptplastic> i know
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15:23:10 <r-friedman> take a look at www.cdc.gov/phiconference -- i believe the conference sessions are not yet up but coming soon
15:23:25 <cptplastic> nice
15:23:36 <r-friedman> also look up Laboratory Interoperability Coalition and wiki.siframework.org
15:24:16 <r-friedman> it's important to take the meaningful use guidelines literally
15:24:32 <r-friedman> so if they say you have to be able to exchange lab results, that's it
15:24:35 <r-friedman> no orders
15:24:54 <cptplastic> true
15:24:58 <r-friedman> i think they say ambulatory care, tests with pos/neg or numeric results
15:25:19 <r-friedman> which means no drug resistance or bug-growing tests
15:25:31 <cptplastic> lol
15:26:18 <r-friedman> they think they are starting small, but by using HL7 2.5 as their standard, they are pushing everyone up a rev or so
15:26:56 <r-friedman> don't know what their position is on titer results
15:27:15 <r-friedman> is this kind of chat at all useful to you? what's really on your mind?
15:27:34 <cptplastic> yes
15:27:42 <cptplastic> because ill be asked this
15:27:51 <cptplastic> at some point
15:27:54 <cptplastic> so will they
15:28:07 <cptplastic> its just a matter of time
15:28:20 <r-friedman> you can reach me at
15:28:22 <r-friedman> r
15:28:22 <r-friedman> d
15:28:23 <r-friedman> f
15:28:25 <r-friedman> 4
15:28:28 <r-friedman> at
15:28:32 <r-friedman> cdc
15:28:34 <r-friedman> dot
15:28:36 <r-friedman> gov
15:29:03 <cptplastic> ill shoot you my contact email
15:29:09 <r-friedman> great
15:30:29 <cptplastic> sent
15:30:59 <r-friedman> super, feel free to write anytime, I'll probably refer you on but I'm happy to do that
15:31:00 <cptplastic> I have not put this on the chopping block yet but I will when i get some time
15:31:53 <r-friedman> cptplastic: so i am also interested in aviation, worked at faa
15:32:12 <cptplastic> I write AIRNAV software
15:32:17 <cptplastic> its cool
15:32:31 <cptplastic> I can make one mean flight sim
15:32:33 <r-friedman> is there a site?
15:32:59 <cptplastic> i never tried getting to it outside
15:33:13 <r-friedman> I also worked on the 737 simulator many years ago
15:33:16 <cptplastic> its not in production YET
15:33:23 <cptplastic> we are getting close
15:33:46 <r-friedman> nothing like a cockpit on a motion base with a video display as an output device!!!
15:33:49 <cptplastic> this acually writed the flight procedures
15:33:59 <cptplastic> writes
15:34:12 <r-friedman> cool
15:34:20 <cptplastic> and its modual based so you can use that info to fly real time
15:34:29 <cptplastic> also counts as flight time
15:34:44 <r-friedman> don't airlines pay what's their name, gessender, big money for that?
15:34:48 <r-friedman> some g name
15:35:21 <cptplastic> everything is contracted in the gov you know that
15:35:36 <r-friedman> me too, i actually work for northrop grumman
15:35:48 <cptplastic> i work for TetraTech
15:36:25 <cptplastic> small world
15:36:27 <cptplastic> LOL
15:36:54 <r-friedman> multidimensional world, many intersections :-)
15:38:11 <r-friedman> gotta run, talk to you later
15:38:18 <r-friedman> glad we ran into each other
15:39:24 <cptplastic> same
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16:08:05 <OpenMRSBot> Recent updates in the world of openmrs: New Changeset: OpenMRS (trunk): TRUNK-2596: Add an Edit Person page ... <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/OMRStrunk/~3/yx3nveiKhw4/OpenMRS> || New Changeset: OpenMRS (trunk): Assign encounters to existing visits or create new visit if necessary implementation of EncounterToVisitAssignmentHandle... <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/OMRStrunk/~3/zbePBnAvgPM/OpenMRS> || New Changeset: OpenMRS (trunk): Adding more unit tests for "Assign encounters to existing visits but don't create new visits" implementation of Encounte... <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/OMRStrunk/~3/9ag1s8TFCRQ/OpenMRS>
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16:29:12 <docpaul> hello. :)
16:29:20 <docpaul> jriley: are you there? :)
16:29:27 <jriley> docpaul, yes I am
16:29:37 <docpaul> beautiful… :) do you know the people at INSTEDD?
16:30:01 <jriley> Yes, I met the Phnom Penh team. They're an impressive bunch
16:30:03 <docpaul> they are making a fairly large commitment to openmrs in cambodia, working with the ministry of health.
16:30:13 <docpaul> can i introduce you to their leader?
16:30:19 <docpaul> i work closely with him on a number of projects
16:30:21 <jriley> I met the URC folks on the same trip. We had a little OpenMRS implementer summit in the URC conference room
16:30:25 <docpaul> he will want to know of your work
16:30:29 <jriley> Certainly, I'd appreciate it
16:30:38 <docpaul> his name is dennis israelski
16:30:54 <docpaul> they might even be able to get you some dedicated help
16:31:13 <docpaul> so how did you get involved in cambodia?
16:31:29 <docpaul> what's your email btw?
16:34:08 <jriley> I looked for programming volunteer opportunities on idealist.org .
16:34:18 <jriley> Help would be great. I'm an army of one. :)
16:34:20 <docpaul> hmm
16:34:29 <jriley> And I found the Angkor Hospital for Children posting
16:34:34 <docpaul> how cool
16:34:44 <docpaul> have you met up with the PIH team there in boston?
16:34:44 <jriley> It was very cool. :) I'm glad I did it
16:34:51 <jriley> Yes, they gave me some good pointers
16:34:54 <docpaul> nice
16:34:55 <jriley> Darius introduced us
16:35:01 <docpaul> you said you're at boston children's?
16:35:07 <docpaul> i'm a pediatrician and know the guys there
16:35:12 <jriley> No, I'm a free range chicken
16:35:15 <docpaul> hehe
16:35:24 <docpaul> were you affiliated at some point with them?
16:35:26 <jriley> unemployed, making good use of the time
16:35:43 <jriley> No. I think I know someone on one of their projects, but I haven't worked with them
16:35:44 <docpaul> good for you! better than watching US tv
16:36:05 <jriley> A friend at Boston Childrens was working on the Google flu-finder
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16:36:25 <jriley> Amen! Though I confess I watched a shameful amount of So You Think You Can Dance in Cambodia
16:36:34 <docpaul> haha
16:37:12 <jriley> Ah! Have you gotten the feedback you needed on documentation?
16:38:09 <docpaul> i intend to write you back on the implementer's list
16:38:13 <mccallumg> docpaul: I'm going to look at your documentation page. I haven't yet. But I have a pretty strong opinion about what I like when I'm implementing a clinical application.
16:38:26 <docpaul> have that post starred, but just haven't had the cycles (been travelling)
16:38:43 <docpaul> thanks glen!
16:38:55 <docpaul> loved elliott's interview btw!
16:39:04 <docpaul> i really enjoy what you're doing with that
16:39:44 <jriley> Are those the YouTube videos?
16:39:48 <docpaul> yes
16:39:59 <docpaul> glen did a new one that hasn't been released yes
16:40:02 <docpaul> er, yet
16:40:06 <docpaul> i think it's ready to go
16:40:57 <jriley> ANd Elliott is the ninja behind the Community sites?
16:41:06 <mccallumg> yes. now that august is over I can take a few hours to breath and get it up on youtube and write blog post for it.
16:42:18 <docpaul> one of the ninjas, yes
16:42:25 <docpaul> but he's special because he's *16*
16:42:30 <docpaul> and building LDAP servers
16:42:45 <jriley> Yeah, that's why I said Ninja
16:43:04 <docpaul> i consider downeym a ninja as well
16:43:14 <docpaul> commensurate with his age. :D
16:43:44 <jriley> I was thinking of him more like Shifu in Kung-Fu Panda
16:43:48 <downeym> i guess i *did* wear black yesterday
16:45:24 <docpaul> email sent janet!
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16:54:23 <jriley> Voila, there it is
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17:12:14 <OpenMRSBot> Recent updates in the world of openmrs: New Changeset: OpenMRS (trunk): TRUNK-2596: Add an Edit Person page ... <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/OMRStrunk/~3/KB_XZA_eBF4/OpenMRS>
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17:15:57 <dkayiwa> hi bwolfe
17:16:25 <docpaul> daniel! :)
17:16:39 <dkayiwa> docpaul: nice to see you here :D
17:16:44 <docpaul> funny about spider eh? :)
17:16:54 <dkayiwa> too too too funy :D
17:17:04 <docpaul> you see, you were right all along
17:17:31 <dkayiwa> hahahah!!! I was not just right. I was the reality :)
17:17:45 <docpaul> :)
17:18:03 <docpaul> i wonder how much $ they wasted getting to that place
17:18:21 <dkayiwa> it must have been too too much!!!
17:18:31 <docpaul> that's sad
17:18:37 <dkayiwa> hoping that will be a lesson to many others!!!
17:19:08 <docpaul> so you think makerere would be interested in working with them on this?
17:19:20 <dkayiwa> too too much
17:19:39 <dkayiwa> they had wanted it in the first place
17:19:48 <dkayiwa> but were just overpowered
17:20:17 <docpaul> i wonder if they influenced it then
17:20:36 <dkayiwa> from what i know, they failed to convince them
17:20:55 <dkayiwa> i think they must have eventually seen themselves heading no where
17:20:59 <docpaul> they had to learn the hard way how much work it is to get where we are now?
17:21:10 <dkayiwa> too too too much
17:21:17 <docpaul> 7 years is a lot of collective work
17:21:18 <docpaul> :)
17:21:33 <dkayiwa> one would be crazy not to take advantage of that :)
17:21:59 <docpaul> i would agree, but i am biased. :)
17:22:10 <dkayiwa> lolll :D
17:22:33 <dkayiwa> in addition to that, there is a lot we are building for the future
17:22:39 <dkayiwa> as a community
17:22:53 <dkayiwa> so they would not only lose what is already in place, but also what is to come :)
17:23:18 <docpaul> no question. i think we're doing a better job of helping ppl understand this
17:23:27 <dkayiwa> sure
17:23:34 <docpaul> they are more trusting of our motives now
17:23:49 <dkayiwa> they better be :)
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17:24:12 <docpaul> have you ever heard of a book called the "innovator's dilemma"?
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17:24:22 <dkayiwa> no
17:24:43 <dkayiwa> do you have it?
17:24:44 <docpaul> http://www.amazon.com/Innovators-Dilemma-Revolutionary-Business-Essentials/dp/0060521996
17:24:49 <OpenMRSBot> <http://ln-s.net/98ik> (at www.amazon.com)
17:24:51 <docpaul> it taught me a lot
17:24:56 <dkayiwa> oh thanks
17:25:09 <dkayiwa> hahahahaha
17:25:28 <dkayiwa> atlease you learnt the easier way :)
17:25:39 <docpaul> What do the Honda Supercub, Intel's 8088 processor, and hydraulic excavators have in common? They are all examples of disruptive technologies that helped to redefine the competitive landscape of their respective markets. These products did not come about as the result of successful companies carrying out sound business practices in established markets. In The Innovator's Dilemma, author Clayton M. Christensen shows how these and other products cut
17:25:39 <docpaul> the low end of the marketplace and eventually evolved to displace high-end competitors and their reigning technologies.
17:25:57 <docpaul> :)
17:26:27 <dkayiwa> very interesting :)
17:26:47 <mccallumg> second time in 2 days I've seen the name Clayton M Christensen. weird.
17:27:00 <docpaul> he's legit glwn
17:27:03 <docpaul> er, glen
17:27:05 <docpaul> go get that book
17:27:39 <docpaul> this book and the "wisdom of crowds" are two seminal books for me at least
17:27:45 <downeym> much better is http://www.amazon.com/Innovators-Solution-Creating-Sustaining-Successful/dp/1578518520
17:27:50 <OpenMRSBot> <http://ln-s.net/98is> (at www.amazon.com)
17:29:21 <mccallumg> downeym: no affiliate link?
17:29:30 <downeym> ha, no
17:30:35 <docpaul> i gotta get back to the grind. :(
17:30:48 <docpaul> was refreshing to come back and say hi
17:30:55 <mccallumg> bye docpaul
17:30:58 <jriley> nice to meet you
17:30:58 <docpaul> janet: deeply appreciate you!
17:31:05 <docpaul> glen: you as well
17:31:05 <jriley> Thank you!
17:31:07 * jriley blushes
17:31:20 <docpaul> see y'all later
17:32:39 <jriley> downeym, does the Solution recap the content of Dilemma?
17:32:50 <jriley> Is it more efficient to start with the answer?
17:33:08 <downeym> jriley: i'd read both :)
17:34:18 <Suranga_> hi guys
17:34:18 <jriley> Hmm, he's written The Innovator's Prescription: A Disruptive Solution for Health Care as well
17:34:27 <Suranga_> small question
17:34:40 <Suranga_> do we support DICOM standard images ?
17:34:59 <Suranga_> i was just reading on this, and it hit me
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17:36:41 <mccallumg> I https://wiki.openmrs.org/display/docs/Radiology+Module
17:36:48 <OpenMRSBot> <http://ln-s.net/98j3> (at wiki.openmrs.org)
17:37:42 <mccallumg> I haven't seen a datatype for DICOM in openmrs yet. but I may be wrong.
17:37:56 <Suranga_> wow, we have a module for that as well ?
17:38:07 <Suranga_> ooops, i should check that out :)
17:44:19 <OpenMRSBot> Recent updates in the world of openmrs: New Changeset: OpenMRS (trunk): Making EncounterService call the active EncounterVisitHandler when you save a new encounter - TRUNK-2624 <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/OMRStrunk/~3/85oyDcWwRVA/OpenMRS>
17:52:19 <Suranga_> hmm.. there goes another good idea. already implemented by an old Gsoc student :-)
17:57:11 <bwolfe> Suranga_, which one is htat?
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17:57:45 <Suranga_> no, i was getting an idea regarding DICOM imaging and OpenMRS
17:58:01 <Suranga_> bwolfe, seems some one has alredy done it
17:58:11 <bwolfe> dkayiwa, you still need me?
17:58:14 <Suranga_> bwolfe, you guys think of everything :D
17:58:42 <dkayiwa> bwolfe: not now :)
17:59:04 <dkayiwa> thanks :)
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19:00:57 <djazayeri> downeym: by the way, I thought I'd mention that in crucible, when creating a code review, the ajax autocomplete widget for saying which user you want to add to the review is painfully slow
19:01:18 <djazayeri> not sure if it's a network issue or (more likely) has something to do with us linking users via crowd
19:01:24 <bwolfe> I thought it was just me
19:01:26 <djazayeri> wyclif: hi
19:02:21 <djazayeri> bwolfe, downeym: for me it takes 15+ seconds after I type "bwolfe" for it to give me any search results.
19:02:23 <wyclif> hi djazayeri
19:02:30 <bwolfe> djazayeri, same
19:02:52 <wyclif> same here
19:02:53 <djazayeri> wyclif: so, the consensus on the email thread is that the on-the-fly-term-creation feature is not that important.
19:02:57 <bwolfe> but when you're in a world with 50KBps, you just assume its your own fault. :-)
19:03:41 <wyclif> djazayeri, i have already added the one where there a button(if you have the privilege) to add a new term from a pop, this is not complex at all
19:03:48 <wyclif> i have a working copy of it
19:04:11 <djazayeri> okay
19:04:24 <djazayeri> so, what remains to be done?
19:04:31 <wyclif> i can it is done
19:04:35 <wyclif> say
19:04:53 <wyclif> and that will be the end of the mappings
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19:06:05 <bwolfe> it is done?
19:06:51 <downeym> djazayeri: this is probably due to the version mismatch of fisheye's embedded crowd client and the version running on the server. unfortunately, we can't upgrade crowd at the moment because the current released version has a fatal bug preventing logins. :)
19:07:07 <djazayeri> preventing logins = bad
19:07:27 <djazayeri> Okay, I just wanted to complain about it, so that it if was a trivial issue you could just go fix it.
19:07:45 <djazayeri> If there's nothing to be done, I'll survive.
19:13:11 <downeym> djazayeri: once they get a fix out i think it will be resolved.
19:13:18 <djazayeri> ok
19:15:55 <djazayeri> bwolfe: I notice that you made a change to VisitDAO.getVisits to support treating visits with a stopDatetime in the future as being active.
19:16:20 <djazayeri> I guess we recently decided that when we auto-create visits, we'll set their stopDatetime to be end-of-day-today?
19:16:27 <djazayeri> So that's necessary?
19:16:44 <bwolfe> that was my understanding
19:16:57 <djazayeri> Okay, makes sense.
19:17:07 <bwolfe> if the current time is between the start and end time, doesn't that mean the visit is ongoing ?
19:17:25 <djazayeri> well, in my original conceptual model, we wouldn't allow end time in the future.
19:17:40 <djazayeri> I wonder if there are other places that code needs to be changed as a result?
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19:19:38 <djazayeri> bwolfe: looking at the commit for the EncounterVisitHandler interface
19:20:02 <djazayeri> I see in your javadoc you say that the framework will take care of persisting newly-instantiated visits...
19:20:10 <djazayeri> I thought we'd decided the opposite.
19:21:39 <djazayeri> hmm, the design pages says "The visit returned does not have be persisted by the handler" so I guess you did it as designed.
19:21:42 <djazayeri> never mind.
19:23:25 <djazayeri> wyclif: so, is your work on the concept mapping ticket done?
19:23:43 <wyclif> yes
19:23:55 <djazayeri> Okay, I'll wait for your commit then.
19:24:11 <djazayeri> (just to code review, not waiting for any specific reason.)
19:24:13 <wyclif> it should be, i want to create a review so that i can fix any suggestions before end of tomorrow
19:24:16 <wyclif> and that weould be it
19:24:31 <djazayeri> Yes, definitely don't want this ticket lasting past this sprint.
19:24:33 <wyclif> have u checked out the branch?
19:24:51 <djazayeri> It's in a branch?
19:24:51 <bwolfe> djazayeri, if you're concerned about looking for places where that change effects things in visits, make a ticekt for it to be investigated so we don't forget to do that before a release
19:24:52 <wyclif> or you mean merging it into trunk
19:25:14 <djazayeri> wyclif: I forgot this was in a branch.
19:25:30 <djazayeri> Any chance we can get that merged this week?
19:25:31 <wyclif> bwolfe, djazayeri any more fixes on this, i want them to done agianst trunk when i merge it
19:25:34 <djazayeri> i.e. tomorrow?
19:25:43 <wyclif> that is my goal
19:25:46 <djazayeri> bwolfe: I'm going to peek at code, and maybe create a ticket.
19:25:49 <djazayeri> wyclif: great
19:25:54 <wyclif> and that is why i want to cretate the review today
19:26:19 <wyclif> to give devs alteast 12-24 hrs to review it
19:26:33 <wyclif> i can also fix more things before the next sorint
19:26:36 <wyclif> sprint
19:27:48 <wyclif> i plan to add more snapshots to the ticket for the UIs
19:27:58 <wyclif> so am working on all this today
19:28:06 <djazayeri> great
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19:49:40 <djazayeri> downeym, burke: any mac screencast recording recommendations?
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19:51:22 <downeym> djazayeri: http://www.screencast-o-matic.com/
19:52:04 <djazayeri> thanks, I'll give it a try
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19:57:11 <bwolfe> theres a wiki page about screencasting, if thats a decent one, add htat
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21:05:49 <chughgaurav> I am installing openmrs ( with Netbeans ) , the Update database task is taking too longer (it's at 79% from past few miniutes ), is there any issue ?
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21:36:05 <chughgaurav> While setting up openmrs , the installation has encountered an error - "There was an error while updating the database to the latest. file: liquibase-update-to-latest.xml. Error: Migration failed for change set liquibase-update-to-latest.xml::201103112152::suho: Reason: liquibase-update-to-latest.xml : Empty result set, expected one row : Caused By: Precondition Error Error while trying to update to the latest database version
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22:34:48 <OpenMRSBot> Recent updates in the world of openmrs: New Changeset: OpenMRS (concept_mappings): concept_mappings: Added support for creating reference terms from the concept form and avoiding multiple maps using the ... <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/OMRStrunk/~3/bCtpeisbWSw/OpenMRS>
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23:03:50 <djazayeri> burke: you actually there?
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23:09:41 <morristic> Hello, is anyone around?
23:09:48 <djazayeri> yes
23:10:10 <morristic> hello there! Could I ask you a quick HTML Forms question?
23:10:19 <djazayeri> sure
23:11:10 <morristic> What is the best way to allow prescribers to add additional <obsgroup> sections
23:11:19 <morristic> for instance, I have a signs and symptoms obsgroup
23:11:44 <morristic> that I would like the user to be able to continue to add more of depending on how many symptoms and signs the patient has
23:12:13 <morristic> We are prepared to do this using jquery or ajax if we must, but I thought that there may already be a solution
23:12:13 <djazayeri> You want it to repeat an arbitrary number of times, with an "add another" button?
23:12:19 <morristic> exactly
23:12:24 <morristic> and also a remove button
23:12:29 <morristic> in case they make a mistake
23:12:29 <djazayeri> Right
23:12:39 <morristic> I saw the repeat tag
23:13:08 <morristic> Is that how you do it?
23:13:10 <djazayeri> A number of people have worked on adding that feature, but the code always ends up being too hacky to include in the module.
23:13:18 <djazayeri> I have always used the repeat tag for this.
23:13:43 <morristic> do you have any sample code on the feature using the repeat tag?
23:13:47 <djazayeri> i.e. display 10 rows with the repeat tag, and hope that's enough
23:13:54 <morristic> ah :/
23:13:54 <djazayeri> i.e. the repeat tag doesn't quite do what you want
23:14:01 <morristic> right, that's what I thought
23:14:28 <morristic> so, you don't feel there is a well coded solution as of yet?
23:14:49 <docpaul> hi. :)
23:14:51 <morristic> is there a way that you would suggest we approach it so that we come up with a solution that others can use?
23:14:55 <morristic> Hi docpaul
23:15:04 <docpaul> djazayeri: check out the email i sent to the leadership list
23:15:10 <djazayeri> morristic: you mean a solution you could code up?
23:15:39 <djazayeri> i.e. you are a developer (or have access to devs)?
23:16:11 <djazayeri> docpaul: okay, I'll keep an eye out for it.
23:16:18 <docpaul> it's there now
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23:16:53 <djazayeri> Haven't received it yet. Maybe the tubes are full.
23:18:26 <morristic> correct. We were thinking of using JS, but I was thinking that a java solution that adds an xml element might be easier for others to use
23:19:04 <morristic> but that sounds like an addition to html forms module, so I would need some help figuring out where to start
23:20:03 <djazayeri> morristic: start by taking a look at https://tickets.openmrs.org/browse/HTML-50
23:20:50 <morristic> ok, I'll check it out
23:20:58 <morristic> seems the last post on it was a while back
23:21:01 <djazayeri> Yes.
23:21:16 <morristic> I'm surprised this isn't a more requested feature.
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23:21:36 <djazayeri> So, there's a "quick-fix" approach to this
23:22:09 <djazayeri> which is to show up to a max number of repeats, but add javascript to reveal as-needed on an "add" button
23:22:40 <djazayeri> I'll have to look back at the code to suggest how to do the "correct" version.
23:22:59 <djazayeri> Since it's been 2 years since I really thought about it.
23:23:17 <djazayeri> It used to be a commonly-requested feature.
23:23:27 <djazayeri> Then suddenly people stopped asking for it—I'm not sure why.
23:24:54 <djazayeri> morristic: One reason it hasn't been implemented yet is that most of the developers working on HTML Form Entry have been from PIH, and our forms mostly will have things like "[ ] cough [ ] fever" ...
23:25:21 <djazayeri> Can you think about whether the quick-fix approach is something that you'd want to try first?
23:25:39 <djazayeri> If that's not sufficient, then I'll try to make time to look at the code and point you to the place to do the more correct fix.
23:26:00 <morristic> We will definitely use the quick fix first, however we plan to actively work on a more dynamic approach
23:26:29 <morristic> our implementations aren't limited to certain specific diseases, so we could really use the flexibility
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23:27:27 <morristic> plus, we think it's an important feature. Not sure if it would be best though to use AJAX (if that's supported by HTML forms) or to create a separate module or to work on html form module firectly
23:27:29 <morristic> *directly
23:27:52 <morristic> but we would prefer to do any development in a way that is most easily used by others
23:28:09 <djazayeri> You want AJAX for selecting the concept, but you'd want the actual submission of data to happen with the rest of the form.
23:28:09 <morristic> which is why I wanted to speak with some of you all first.
23:28:22 <morristic> right
23:28:53 <morristic> well, I was able to get a autocomplete concept selection obsgroup setup
23:29:00 <djazayeri> The way HTML Form Entry works is that as the xml defining the form is processed, each tag (e.g. "<obs…/>") generates a "Widget"
23:29:11 <morristic> ok
23:29:22 <djazayeri> and that Widget is registered in the FormEntryContext
23:29:25 <djazayeri> (server-side)
23:30:01 <djazayeri> so, when the client submits the form, we iterate over all registered widgets and call their handleSubmission method (or something like that)
23:30:54 <djazayeri> the reason this ticket is tricky is that really you'd want to be able to use the existing tags (obs, etc) as-is, but just wrap them in a <dynamicRepeat>…</dynamicRepeat> or something.
23:31:19 <morristic> that would definitely be most userfriendly
23:32:02 <djazayeri> But this scenario would lead to the html widgets actually being duplicated on the client-side, which breaks the model where all widgets are pre-registered on the server side.
23:32:04 <morristic> but that requires adding some functions to your library that parses the xml
23:32:23 <djazayeri> I hope it doesn't.
23:33:00 <morristic> ah I see, so the number of obs is set before the user begins interacting with the form currently
23:33:07 <djazayeri> Currently, yes.
23:33:15 <djazayeri> I have a solution in mind.
23:33:25 <djazayeri> Let me comment on the ticket, so we actually preserve this.
23:33:37 <morristic> ok
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23:34:13 <morristic> we have accomplished a similar task previously for an entirely different sort of project
23:34:38 <djazayeri> Cool. I'm definitely interested in seeing this feature added, so I'm happy to help.
23:34:46 <djazayeri> Where are you based / what are you working on, btw?
23:34:49 <morristic> we had the server parse the form after the submission.
23:34:57 <morristic> would that be possible in this case?
23:35:11 <morristic> Baltimore, MD
23:35:29 <djazayeri> I'd rather work this into the existing conceptual model of the module.
23:35:42 <morristic> sounds good
23:35:55 <morristic> our project is called Community Health Information Partners
23:36:28 <morristic> we are working through an Albert Schweitzer Fellowship project to help bring electronic medical records to free clinics and clinics for the underserved.
23:36:44 <djazayeri> in the US?
23:36:44 <morristic> currently, we are just working on getting the pilot together for the Baltimore Rescue Mission Clinic.
23:36:46 <morristic> Yes
23:36:48 <djazayeri> cool
23:38:01 <morristic> Thanks! we are really excited about the project.
23:47:40 <djazayeri> morristic: I commented on the ticket.
23:47:53 <morristic> thanks!
23:48:00 <djazayeri> It's probably not very comprehensible if you're not already quite familiar with the HTML Form Entry code though.
23:48:05 <djazayeri> I just wanted to get some thoughts down.
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23:49:18 <morristic> sure
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23:49:37 <djazayeri> So, perhaps after you've taken a look at the quick-hack solution, then we can revisit this?
23:50:15 <morristic> yeah, we haven't worked on any of the html module code. we've only worked on server side things and making some html forms so far. Sure.
23:50:38 <djazayeri> (I'll actually be on vacation tomorrow and Monday.)
23:51:56 <morristic> sounds good. by the quick-hack solution you mean just having a specified number of repeats, correct?
23:52:27 <djazayeri> Yes, and if you want to be clever, wrapping some javascript around that so you don't show them all until requested.
23:52:55 <morristic> ah, sneaky. we can definitely do that.
23:53:11 <morristic> have a safe trip!
23:53:13 <morristic> thanks again
23:53:15 <djazayeri> If you successfully do that, can you please document how on the wiki?
23:53:23 <morristic> sure
23:53:30 <djazayeri> thanks
23:53:34 <morristic> in the html forms wiki or the post you just posted on?
23:54:31 <djazayeri> How about as a comment on the html form entry html reference page
23:54:50 <morristic> sounds good
23:55:15 <morristic> I have to run out for a bit, but it was nice talking with you. Thanks for your help.
23:55:23 <djazayeri> np, catch you later
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