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| 01:15:07 | <OpenMRSBot> Recent updates in the world of openmrs: New Changeset: OpenMRS (improved-person-attribute-type): enumeratedOpenmrsMetadata attibute type handler improved <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/OMRStrunk/~3/PdDG3lDAzOM/OpenMRS> || New Changeset: OpenMRS (improved-person-attribute-type): enumeratedOpenmrsMetadata attibute type handler improved <http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/OMRStrunk/~3/3Lcg3yXFdLk/OpenMRS> |
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| 13:09:44 | <bryq> rafa: Hi, are you there? |
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| 15:51:34 | <morristic> hey there, is anyone around today? |
| 15:53:56 | <morristic> I could use some help with forms if anyone has time |
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| 16:12:56 | <morristic> hello, is anyone around? |
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| 16:51:47 | <dkayiwa> hi morristic |
| 16:51:56 | <morristic> hi! |
| 16:52:03 | <dkayiwa> did u get help? |
| 16:52:06 | <morristic> do you have a moment for a few questions? |
| 16:52:08 | <morristic> not yet |
| 16:52:09 | <dkayiwa> ok |
| 16:52:24 | <morristic> I was having trouble with the latest version 1.8.2 |
| 16:52:28 | <dkayiwa> ok |
| 16:52:37 | <morristic> if you don't install demo data, then there is no basic form |
| 16:52:45 | <morristic> and I can't figure out how to create a form from scratch |
| 16:52:48 | <morristic> or import a form |
| 16:52:52 | <dkayiwa> which form module are you using? |
| 16:52:59 | <dkayiwa> htmlformentry? or another? |
| 16:53:29 | <morristic> I am using FormEntry right now |
| 16:53:30 | <dkayiwa> formentry? xforms? |
| 16:53:51 | <morristic> forms doesn't seem to work properly |
| 16:54:02 | <morristic> I installed ver 4.0.4 |
| 16:54:07 | <dkayiwa> ok you can use the xforms module to create you a basic form structure that you can use with the formentry module |
| 16:54:17 | <morristic> and it will not allow me to open xml files |
| 16:54:26 | <morristic> and doesn't have a tab for viewing xml |
| 16:54:37 | <dkayiwa> which module? |
| 16:54:40 | <morristic> xforms |
| 16:54:50 | <dkayiwa> did you want to look at the xml? |
| 16:55:52 | <morristic> yes |
| 16:56:04 | <morristic> because I have the xml files from the demo page |
| 16:56:06 | <dkayiwa> thats hidden by default |
| 16:56:09 | <morristic> and I was hoping to just upload them |
| 16:56:12 | <morristic> ah I see |
| 16:56:29 | <dkayiwa> were u able to create a new form using the module? |
| 16:56:43 | <morristic> I couldn't quite figure it out, no |
| 16:56:47 | <dkayiwa> you can just click add form? |
| 16:56:57 | <dkayiwa> on the admin screen, select manage forms |
| 16:57:01 | <dkayiwa> then click add form |
| 16:57:17 | <dkayiwa> enter a few form attributes like name, version and then save |
| 16:58:19 | <dkayiwa> but because of a bug in openmrs, the first form will be read only |
| 16:58:35 | <morristic> Oh, so I was able to do that, but then there was no design schema displayed |
| 16:58:37 | <dkayiwa> so after creating the first form, immediately create a second one |
| 16:58:48 | <morristic> oh |
| 16:58:50 | <dkayiwa> which you will then be able to modify as you like |
| 16:59:10 | <morristic> ah I see, let me try that |
| 16:59:13 | <dkayiwa> yes the design is not displayed because of that bug |
| 16:59:21 | <dkayiwa> for the first form only |
| 17:00:04 | <morristic> ah ok, that is probably what was throwing me off. I spent so long reading the implementor's thread last night heh. is that mentioned in the documentation? |
| 17:00:16 | <dkayiwa> no |
| 17:00:49 | <dkayiwa> but you can report it such that i gets attention and gets fixed |
| 17:00:56 | <morristic> Ok, so once I create the second form, I should see design schema. Then, is there a way to quickly import a form that has already been created in another instance of openers? |
| 17:01:02 | <dkayiwa> yes |
| 17:01:09 | <morristic> http://demo.openmrs.org/openmrs/admin/forms/formEdit.form?formId=15 |
| 17:01:17 | <OpenMRSBot> <http://ln-s.net/96IT> (at demo.openmrs.org) |
| 17:01:21 | <morristic> like the AMPATH Adult Initial Visit Form |
| 17:01:24 | <morristic> for instance |
| 17:01:43 | <dkayiwa> yes you can import other forms as long as both instances have the same concept dictionary (that is with the xforms module) |
| 17:01:47 | <morristic> I see where you can upload an XSN, but it's not an XSN |
| 17:02:14 | <morristic> ok gotcha, how do you "open" an xml file in xforms? |
| 17:02:19 | <dkayiwa> but i think for the htmlformentry module, you can use the metadatasharing module to copy forms around |
| 17:02:27 | <morristic> I tried clicking the file>open button, but it doesn't seem to do anything |
| 17:02:42 | <dkayiwa> why do you want to see the xml for xforms? |
| 17:03:09 | <morristic> Well, since I couldn't get the file>open button to work, I thought that I could just copy and paste the xml |
| 17:03:23 | <morristic> but what's the best way to open or import a non XSN form |
| 17:03:41 | <dkayiwa> oh yes that would work fine. just that the form would not save because of missing concepts |
| 17:04:05 | <dkayiwa> each form module has its own style |
| 17:04:13 | <dkayiwa> formentry, xforms, htmlformentry |
| 17:04:24 | <dkayiwa> so depends on what you want to use |
| 17:05:00 | <morristic> I see, so which is the best way to upload using form entry, but without an XSN file? |
| 17:05:05 | <morristic> or is that even possible? |
| 17:05:42 | <morristic> I couldn't figure out how to get the upload new XSLT button to work. |
| 17:05:48 | <morristic> but I did try that |
| 17:05:48 | <dkayiwa> with the formentry module, i think you would first of all need the concepts form the instance you are copying |
| 17:06:01 | <morristic> right, I have the MVP concept dictionary installed |
| 17:06:34 | <dkayiwa> then you would need to import the from from an existing instance that already has the same MVP dictionary |
| 17:06:46 | <dkayiwa> that is for the formentry module |
| 17:07:04 | <dkayiwa> but htmlformentry module does not require so |
| 17:07:23 | <dkayiwa> because it can use the metadatasharing module to bring over the needed concepts |
| 17:07:46 | <morristic> when you use htmlformentry or xforms, do the forms still appear in Manage Forms |
| 17:08:05 | <dkayiwa> yes they will |
| 17:09:39 | <morristic> Are there any html form templates available? |
| 17:10:08 | <dkayiwa> you can check the htmlformentry documentation |
| 17:10:21 | <morristic> I really like the ampath forms on the demo as a starting point, but I haven't found a good way to export them. |
| 17:10:37 | <morristic> all that I can get is the .xml file |
| 17:11:00 | <morristic> is there a way to get them in html? |
| 17:12:14 | <dkayiwa> you can get the same form if you also install demo data |
| 17:12:32 | <dkayiwa> so you do not see them in your instance because you do not have demo data |
| 17:12:41 | <morristic> I just started a new instance with the demo data, but it only gave me the basic form |
| 17:12:55 | <dkayiwa> oh i seeeee |
| 17:13:25 | <dkayiwa> there could be an sql script you can run to give you those forms |
| 17:13:38 | <morristic> I can construct them from duplicating the basic form, but I've been playing around with several instances and I want to find a good way to quickly import them |
| 17:13:49 | <morristic> so that if I have to start over, I don't have to create them all over. |
| 17:13:56 | <dkayiwa> i do not remember which, you may need to send mail to the implementers list |
| 17:14:16 | <dkayiwa> for the sql script you may need to run to give you those forms |
| 17:14:30 | <morristic> ah ok, could I just export certain tables from the mysql server and create my own sql script? |
| 17:14:41 | <dkayiwa> do you just want to show some people a demo? |
| 17:14:44 | <morristic> which tables would I need to include, just the form tables? |
| 17:15:11 | <dkayiwa> i will be more helpful if i get some background on what you want to do |
| 17:15:13 | <morristic> no, i'm working on an implementation and I just would like to have the best foundation to start from |
| 17:15:20 | <morristic> so that it will take less time to get off the ground |
| 17:15:20 | <dkayiwa> oh i see |
| 17:15:47 | <dkayiwa> have you looked at the existing paper forms (if any) for you implementation? |
| 17:16:04 | <morristic> the thing is, I'm playing around with several different configurations and breaking things often, so I am trying to setup a workflow that is simple to get another instance going wuickly |
| 17:16:07 | <morristic> *quickly |
| 17:16:34 | <morristic> we don't have any complicated forms. this is for a free clinic that just uses SOAP notes right now. |
| 17:16:34 | <dkayiwa> once you get one instance working well, the rest would be simple |
| 17:16:45 | <morristic> so we are hoping to create better more complete forms for them as well |
| 17:16:52 | <morristic> which is why I'm looking at some of the existing forms |
| 17:17:02 | <dkayiwa> so for now just concentrate on having the first instance working |
| 17:17:15 | <morristic> ok |
| 17:17:25 | <dkayiwa> the ampath forms a pretty long |
| 17:17:34 | <dkayiwa> so am not sure if you want such long forms |
| 17:17:54 | <morristic> maybe not that long, but for the initial visit, I'd like to collect a complete medical history |
| 17:18:05 | <morristic> and we will probably include many of the items in the am path forms |
| 17:18:41 | <morristic> One question regarding the UI-- |
| 17:18:55 | <dkayiwa> you have two options now. 1) Send mail to the list and ask them for the script 2)Recreate them yourself |
| 17:18:59 | <morristic> Once I create a form, (I was able to duplicate the basic form and create a SOAP form) |
| 17:19:10 | <morristic> When I search for a patient and go to Forms |
| 17:19:25 | <morristic> er Form Entry |
| 17:19:32 | <morristic> then search for a form there, nothing appear |
| 17:19:32 | <dkayiwa> ok |
| 17:19:34 | <morristic> appears |
| 17:19:43 | <dkayiwa> yes because you have no form saved yet |
| 17:20:09 | <dkayiwa> you need to use either formentry, htmlformentry, or xforms to save atleast a form |
| 17:20:19 | <morristic> Right, I created a form called SOAP |
| 17:20:25 | <morristic> by duplicating the basic form |
| 17:20:34 | <dkayiwa> thats not enough, |
| 17:20:34 | <morristic> I published this form |
| 17:20:48 | <morristic> what is the next step? |
| 17:20:54 | <dkayiwa> form formentry, you need MS Infopath to design the form and upload xsn |
| 17:21:15 | <dkayiwa> for htmlform entry, you need to go to the htmlform entry page for saving an html form |
| 17:21:22 | <morristic> oh, i see, so form entry requires infopath. |
| 17:21:40 | <dkayiwa> for xforms, you need to click the desgn xform link which will take you into the form designer where you can save a form from |
| 17:21:43 | <dkayiwa> yes |
| 17:22:09 | <morristic> I see, I thought that it was just an option for designing the layouts. I didn't understand that. |
| 17:22:22 | <dkayiwa> which one? |
| 17:22:32 | <morristic> So, if I want our team to be able to create forms without MS office, then which form tool do you most recommend? |
| 17:22:55 | <dkayiwa> then you get left with two options (htmlformentry or xforms) |
| 17:23:23 | <dkayiwa> if you know html, then you can use htmlformentry |
| 17:23:32 | <dkayiwa> if you do not, then you can use xforms |
| 17:24:20 | <dkayiwa> the htmlformentry module has a form designer which is supposed to shield you from having to know html. But i have not used it that much |
| 17:24:26 | <morristic> ok. if form entry requires info path, then why do the am path forms not have XSN files? |
| 17:24:35 | <morristic> in the demo |
| 17:25:14 | <dkayiwa> to enter data in those forms, you need MS infopath |
| 17:25:29 | <dkayiwa> without it, you can only use htmlformentry or xforms |
| 17:26:31 | <morristic> I see. is there a tutorial for creating a form using htmlformentry or forms? |
| 17:26:46 | <morristic> I found the documentation in the wiki not all that helpful |
| 17:27:03 | <dkayiwa> each of those module has its own documentation on the wiki |
| 17:27:53 | <dkayiwa> https://wiki.openmrs.org/display/docs/HTML+Form+Entry+Module |
| 17:28:00 | <OpenMRSBot> <http://ln-s.net/96Ir> (at wiki.openmrs.org) |
| 17:28:14 | <dkayiwa> or |
| 17:28:14 | <dkayiwa> http://openmrs.org/wiki/XForms_Module |
| 17:34:01 | <dkayiwa> morristic: is that helpful |
| 17:35:04 | <morristic> I had a tough time with the xforms module. I think that I will try htmlforms next |
| 17:35:22 | <morristic> I know html, but I am concerned that it might require some custom calls. |
| 17:35:28 | <dkayiwa> what made it tough? |
| 17:35:41 | <morristic> many of the buttons didn't work |
| 17:35:46 | <dkayiwa> like? |
| 17:36:20 | <morristic> none of the options in the menu bar worked for me |
| 17:36:25 | <dkayiwa> ok |
| 17:36:29 | <morristic> file, view, item, tools, or help |
| 17:36:35 | <dkayiwa> ok |
| 17:36:36 | <morristic> I tried firefox, chrome and ie |
| 17:36:40 | <dkayiwa> ok |
| 17:37:03 | <morristic> firefox and chrome just didn't respond, i.e. gave me an error box |
| 17:37:13 | <morristic> would you like me to give you the error? |
| 17:37:44 | <dkayiwa> were you following the instruction on the module documentation page? |
| 17:37:51 | <dkayiwa> instructions on how to create a form? |
| 17:38:49 | <dkayiwa> the ones which start on the form schema screen click the "Design Xform" link? |
| 17:38:51 | <morristic> there isn't documentation for opening/uploading a form |
| 17:38:56 | <morristic> so I was trying to figure it out |
| 17:39:41 | <dkayiwa> did you look at the user guide page? |
| 17:39:43 | <morristic> Oh, perhaps I was clicking the wrong link |
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| 17:40:10 | <morristic> the only link that I could find to get to xforms was under the xform section in administration |
| 17:40:19 | <dkayiwa> https://wiki.openmrs.org/display/docs/XForms+Module+User+Guide |
| 17:40:20 | <OpenMRSBot> <http://ln-s.net/8afL> (at wiki.openmrs.org) |
| 17:40:21 | <morristic> that is called "Patient XForm Design |
| 17:40:58 | <dkayiwa> Jump to the section with this heading "Copying xforms between servers" |
| 17:41:17 | <dkayiwa> did you read that? |
| 17:41:55 | <morristic> Perhaps the problem is the design form link |
| 17:42:11 | <dkayiwa> what was the problem with the link? |
| 17:42:15 | <morristic> design xform link |
| 17:42:19 | <morristic> where is it? |
| 17:42:37 | <morristic> I thought that it referred to Patient XForm Design |
| 17:42:48 | <morristic> under xforms in administration |
| 17:42:59 | <dkayiwa> the section "Copying xforms between servers" guides you on how to find that lik |
| 17:43:02 | <dkayiwa> link |
| 17:43:14 | <dkayiwa> did you follow those steps and did not find the link? |
| 17:43:59 | <morristic> correct. first, the instructions assume you have the basic form. one of the issues that I was running into is that without the demo data, there is no basic form |
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| 17:44:17 | <morristic> so I was stuck, let me try again on the server with the demo data real quick |
| 17:44:55 | <dkayiwa> if you missed out on any of the first steps, then the rest will not work |
| 17:45:28 | <dkayiwa> and am assuming you read the NOTE: section |
| 17:45:43 | <dkayiwa> at the bottom of that section |
| 17:47:02 | <morristic> ok, I found the design xform link now and the buttons seem to be working properly within it |
| 17:47:16 | <dkayiwa> ok |
| 17:47:22 | <morristic> what is the patient design xform link under admin xform section for? |
| 17:47:33 | <morristic> that is what threw me off |
| 17:48:06 | <dkayiwa> its documentation is here: |
| 17:48:07 | <dkayiwa> https://wiki.openmrs.org/display/docs/XForms+Module+Patient+Registration |
| 17:48:08 | <OpenMRSBot> <http://ln-s.net/8a:K> (at wiki.openmrs.org) |
| 17:48:44 | <morristic> ah ok |
| 17:49:18 | <morristic> one last question for you, sorry to have so many. |
| 17:50:04 | <morristic> if you do create a form in form entry using info path, does every client require info path to fill out that form? |
| 17:50:31 | <morristic> or does info path create a form that is viewable via the web? |
| 17:50:59 | <morristic> in other words, do you only require info path the create and save the form or do you need it every time the form gets filled out |
| 17:52:02 | <dkayiwa> yes client requires ms infopath to enter data on the form if you use the formentry module |
| 17:53:09 | <morristic> ok, thanks. it would be really nice to have some screen casts of creating the xform and html form as well |
| 17:53:15 | <dkayiwa> so you need infopath for both designing the form and filling it with data |
| 17:53:41 | <morristic> I understand. that means we will definitely use x forms or html forms |
| 17:53:47 | <dkayiwa> ok |
| 17:55:35 | <morristic> I'm going to just try and follow the documentation exactly and see if I can get a form to appear before trying to do importing. |
| 17:55:46 | <dkayiwa> ok |
| 17:55:48 | <morristic> so the demo data is basically required in order for x forms to work |
| 17:55:54 | <dkayiwa> no |
| 17:56:05 | <morristic> but the instructions require the basic form |
| 17:56:15 | <morristic> which isn't included in the vanilla instal |
| 17:56:19 | <dkayiwa> the documentation says that its is optional |
| 17:56:34 | <dkayiwa> just read it carefully |
| 17:56:57 | <morristic> On the destination server, create a new form as a duplicate of the OpenMRS basic form. Give it the same name as the form you want to copy. |
| 17:57:23 | <dkayiwa> i think the documentation needs to be updated |
| 17:57:29 | <dkayiwa> for that bit |
| 17:57:48 | <dkayiwa> Versions 3.9.9 and above of the xforms module make it easier to create forms because you just add a new form and then the default fields are automatically created, hence not requiring duplicating the Basic Form, which may not be available for installations that do not have demo data. |
| 17:58:07 | <morristic> I see. |
| 17:58:35 | <morristic> well, I appreciate your help. I'm going to play with it a little more. there is certainly a learning curve! :D |
| 17:59:23 | <morristic> I hope that I can get x forms to work well so that we can teach volunteers with minimal coding experience to create forms. |
| 17:59:39 | <dkayiwa> i hope so too |
| 18:00:10 | <dkayiwa> you can also try out htmlformentry |
| 18:01:17 | <morristic> thanks again. |
| 18:01:26 | <dkayiwa> yo welcome |
| 18:01:34 | <morristic> I'm sure I'll have more questions later :D bye bye for now. |
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| 18:01:44 | <dkayiwa> 8) |
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| 21:30:24 | <OpenMRSBot> Recent updates in the world of openmrs: OpenMRS Modules: Atlas Module 1.0 uploaded to OpenMRS Module Repository <https://dev.openmrs.org/modules/view.jsp?module=atlas&version=&1.0> |
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