IRC Chat : 2009-12-02 - OpenMRS

00:56:14 <OpenMRSBot> Recent updates in the world of openmrs: OpenMRS Changesets: Changeset [11356]: testathon: * Fixed most errors and failures * Marked a few unit tests … <http://dev.openmrs.org/changeset/11356>
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05:12:27 <OpenMRSBot> Recent updates in the world of openmrs: OpenMRS Forum: API Exception on stand alone app <http://forum.openmrs.org/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=535#p1963>
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14:16:56 <OpenMRSBot> Recent updates in the world of openmrs: OpenMRS Changesets: Changeset [11357]: chica ccd * add try-catch-finally blocks around read/write locks to … <http://dev.openmrs.org/changeset/11357>
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16:25:04 <OpenMRSBot> Recent updates in the world of openmrs: OpenMRS Changesets: Changeset [11358]: ldap: replaced sr.getName() with sr.getNameInNamespace() in the … <http://dev.openmrs.org/changeset/11358>
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18:58:11 <SparFux> Hi all.
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18:58:50 <Mkop> spam bots are funny sometimes
18:59:26 <Mkop> like the forum post where the thread was talking about unit tests or something and the bot spammed about writing tests for school kids
19:00:51 <SparFux> hm...
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19:11:03 <SparFux> Does OpenMRS run on top of tomcat? Or does it use it's own ports?
19:12:09 <Mkop> it runs within tomcat
19:12:34 <Mkop> the default is that you access it by going to http://localhost:8080/openmrs
19:13:07 <SparFux> When I restart apache, I get the warning "[warn] worker http://localhost:8080/ already used by another worker". I think tomcat is working there, right?
19:14:05 <SparFux> ah, I can access tomcat on localhost:8080 and openmrs on localhost:8080/openmrs
19:15:07 <Mkop> yeah
19:15:24 <SparFux> But I only get OpenMRS page that server cannot start. Crap, yesterday it worked :-\
19:15:56 <Mkop> what do you mean that it can't start?
19:16:55 <SparFux> Iget this on localhost:8080/openmrs http://pastebin.com/d6696e5b4
19:17:22 <SparFux> Well, as far as I recall I changed the ports as I thought it would run on some other ports and not 8080.
19:17:42 <SparFux> 20:15:00,691 INFO [Http11Protocol] Stopping Coyote HTTP/1.1 on http-res%2F192.168.118.8-8088
19:17:42 <SparFux> 20:15:00,694 INFO [Http11Protocol] Stopping Coyote HTTP/1.1 on http-res%2F192.168.118.8-4430
19:17:52 <SparFux> I am afraid I changed to 8088 and that was wrong?
19:17:59 <SparFux> Perhaps I will have to reinstall.
19:18:27 <Mkop> did you change the ports for tomcat or for mysql?
19:18:34 <SparFux> nope.
19:18:38 <SparFux> I left them as is.
19:18:38 <Mkop> it seems like tomcat is running fine but it can't access the database
19:18:45 <Mkop> so what ports did you change?
19:18:46 <SparFux> hm....
19:19:15 <SparFux> the https 8080 port to 8088 and https 443 to 4430
19:19:27 <SparFux> I will have to reinstall openmrs I am afraid.
19:20:29 <Mkop> where did you change those ports?
19:20:54 <SparFux> I want to write a tutorial about how to set up a debian system with OpenMRS and apache redirecting server/openmrs to server:8080/openmrs and https://server:443/openmrs to openmrs, too.
19:21:03 <SparFux> I changed the ports on OpenMRS installation.
19:21:19 <Mkop> openmrs does not open its own ports, it only runs within tomcat
19:21:56 <SparFux> how about coyote?
19:21:58 <Mkop> I suspect that the ports you changed are the ones in the openmrs install wizard, where it asks you for the ports where mysql is running
19:22:39 <SparFux> yes, there. I didn't change mysql port though. it sits on 3306/tcp open mysql
19:22:54 <SparFux> but I changed sth to 8088 and 4430 I am afraid.
19:22:56 <SparFux> -> reinstall.
19:23:03 <Mkop> not necessarily
19:25:02 <SparFux> hm... it did not purge my configuration it seems. still he error.
19:26:01 <Mkop> you need to fix the openmrs properties file
19:26:07 <Mkop> you're running on linux, right?
19:26:16 <SparFux> yes.
19:26:57 <SparFux> omg, openmrs deb file installs to root dir!
19:27:39 <SparFux> That's not really FHS. :-)
19:27:44 <Mkop> check if it's at ~/.Openmrs/openmrs-runtime.properties
19:27:48 <Mkop> FHS?
19:27:58 <SparFux> Filesystem Hierarchy Standard.
19:28:28 <SparFux> well, which user ~?
19:28:32 <Mkop> it installs to /?
19:28:35 <Mkop> really?
19:28:53 <SparFux> yes.
19:29:03 <SparFux> do yo uuse debian, too?
19:30:17 <Mkop> I'm on a windows machine right now, but my other computer is ubuntu
19:30:20 <Mkop> which is almost debian
19:30:25 <SparFux> Yes, it is.
19:30:45 <SparFux> you use openmrs-1.5.1.deb ?
19:31:09 <Mkop> I didn't install from deb
19:31:27 <Mkop> I followed the complex installation for developers
19:31:47 <Mkop> so you can run tomcat directly from eclipse
19:31:50 <Mkop> etc.
19:32:59 <SparFux> you use tomcat6?
19:34:23 <SparFux> perhaps I should install complex, too.
19:35:11 <SparFux> May I ask, is it possible to easily create new forms in OpenMRS and reports to print the gathered data?
19:36:30 <SparFux> I read something about Infopath, but I'd like to use OpenOffice.
19:37:01 <SparFux> What I need at first is just being able to create forms for patients and have reports printed of the gathered data.
19:37:48 <Mkop> there are a few methods to enter data. One is manually, one is with infopath forms, one is htmlforms, and there are a few more
19:38:11 <Mkop> as for reports, I'm not sure exactly what they have currently. jmiranda, are you around by chance?
19:38:15 <SparFux> Ok, I'd like to have html forms. how to create them?
19:38:27 <Mkop> do you have the htmlforms module installed?
19:38:29 <jmiranda> Mkop, yeah
19:38:32 <Mkop> I don't know if it comes by default
19:38:48 <SparFux> well, I hardly have OpenMRS installed correctly as of now :-\
19:39:49 <Mkop> jmiranda: can you answer SparFux's question about reports?
19:40:03 <Mkop> it may be that the default install includes htmlforms. It's a pretty commonly used module
19:40:32 <SparFux> but it doesn't offer creating custom html forms, right?
19:40:43 <jmiranda> SparFux, yeah i'd suggest starting with htmlformentry for forms
19:40:55 <jmiranda> yes, you can create your own forms
19:41:46 <jmiranda> "reports" is a pretty general term, as i have found out from working on our reporting system for many years
19:42:15 <jmiranda> there are multiple solutions, and the one you'll use is based on what you need to "report" on
19:42:38 <jmiranda> eventually our "reporting" module will be able to handle most use cases
19:42:42 <SparFux> jmiranda: Well, I'd like to be able to gather data from html forms and print them out in reports. This way I could port our clinics patient admission and stuff into OpenMRS.
19:43:00 <jmiranda> reports = aggregate data
19:43:08 <jmiranda> or patient specific reports?
19:43:10 <SparFux> Yes, aggregate data.
19:43:16 <SparFux> Nono, patient specific.
19:43:20 <SparFux> Just for clinical usage.
19:43:20 <jmiranda> :)
19:43:21 <jmiranda> see
19:43:27 <SparFux> jmiranda: so pretty simple.
19:43:44 <jmiranda> those are pretty general use cases
19:44:00 <jmiranda> and it's been difficult figuring out what everyone wants/needs
19:44:09 <SparFux> OpenMRS would only offer user administration and later on hopefully is able to order workflow efficiently. Like I would like to be able to say what form should be asked to be filled in when.
19:44:11 <jmiranda> so while we're improving the reporting module to do both
19:44:20 <jmiranda> we have the BIRT module or jasper module
19:44:44 <SparFux> Yes, jasper I heard of. Seems to be great. iReport can graphically design jasper reports.
19:44:46 <jmiranda> which can handle both pretty well ... and they give you lots of flexibility to design custom reports
19:44:56 <jmiranda> yeah, birt is similar
19:45:08 <jmiranda> i prefer birt over jasper, but you can use whatever you feel comfortable with
19:45:18 <SparFux> And does OpenMRS allow changing workflow and save clicks and typing stuff? :-)
19:45:46 <jmiranda> the jasper module is not maintained much any longer, but birt is definitely going to be a major part of the ongoing reporting work
19:46:22 <jmiranda> SparFux, do you mean for reports? or in general?
19:46:53 <jmiranda> in either case, no ... there's no bpm (workflow-like) features yet
19:46:53 <SparFux> in general.
19:47:02 <SparFux> hm... well ok.
19:47:32 <jmiranda> but it's an interesting idea and could be supported in the future if we go to a more portlet like UI
19:47:43 <SparFux> I read about thought to integrate ADempiere with OpenMRS. Seems like ADempiere project is interested in OpenMRS. It is an enterprise resource planner software which offers workflow editing.
19:47:55 <jmiranda> but i definitely don't see that happening in the short-term and probably not in the long-term
19:48:10 <jmiranda> nice
19:48:36 <SparFux> jmiranda: perhaps it would be a good idea to have both systems running. ADempiere do the financial and stock management and OpenMRS be the system to store medical data in.
19:49:04 <SparFux> ADempiere might trigger html form entry anywhere in the workflow and thus gather needed information about patients.
19:49:46 <SparFux> I am not sure about how flexible such a solution would be. I feel like it would be the best idea to have one system integrating everything, and not two seperated systems communicating with each other, but well. I am not an expert on that :-)
19:50:55 <jmiranda> yes, we've designed the reporting and htmlformentry module to be more widget-y so that it would be easier to re-use them within other modules
19:51:57 <jmiranda> ADempiere could certainly develop a module that glues together the available "widgets", allowing admins to specify how they want the app to flow
19:52:14 <jmiranda> right now, that's sort of hard-wired into the forms
19:52:17 <SparFux> Interesting information that is.
19:52:33 <jmiranda> but inforpath allows you to do some interesting conditional workflow stuff too
19:52:53 <SparFux> I don't like the idea to depend on Microsoft products, I have to admit.
19:52:57 <jmiranda> yes
19:53:07 <jmiranda> just saying that it exists in there
19:53:16 <jmiranda> htmlformentry is probably going to address that at some point
19:53:19 <jmiranda> if it hasn't already
19:53:53 <jmiranda> and the xforms module has some built-in logic as well
19:54:15 <SparFux> I could create xforms stuff with OpenOffice and put these forms in OpenMRS, right?
19:54:16 <jmiranda> that is an amazing module
19:54:25 <jmiranda> unfortunately no
19:54:34 <SparFux> ah, damn. :-\
19:54:44 <jmiranda> we tried that approach, but there was some issues with the open office side of things
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19:55:16 <jmiranda> the xforms module has it's own designer and renderer
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19:56:30 <SparFux> within OpenMRS?
19:59:35 <SparFux> I am pretty sure OpenMRS does not contain any operating-room management feature, right? I have wrote some thoughts on http://www.alice-dsl.net/jkl345/HIS.html
20:03:23 <OpenMRSBot> Recent updates in the world of openmrs: OpenMRS Changesets: Changeset [11359]: patientflags: fixed upper/lowercase bug in SQL evaluator <http://dev.openmrs.org/changeset/11359>
20:06:30 <SparFux> hm... I cannot even get admin access to my tomcat6.
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20:07:52 <SparFux> re Mkop
20:13:30 <jmiranda> sorry ... yes, the xforms designer/renderer runs within openmrs
20:13:51 <jmiranda> it was built to provide forms for mobile devices
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20:14:17 <jmiranda> but if you're ok with "stripped" down forms it's a good solution
20:14:31 <jmiranda> openmrs is not a hospital management tool
20:14:33 <SparFux> stripped down in how far? not so nicely formatted?
20:14:37 <jmiranda> yeah
20:14:47 <jmiranda> i think it allows for CSS styling
20:15:02 <jmiranda> similar to htmlforms
20:15:10 <SparFux> OpenMRS is a medical data gathering tool and thus PART of a hospital information system.
20:15:19 <jmiranda> but there's no wysiwyg styling components within either of those tools
20:15:28 <jmiranda> yes
20:15:54 <SparFux> gathering medical data should be a straight forward easy task and it should be efficient.
20:15:55 <jmiranda> there are groups that are developing modules for use within a hospital
20:16:21 <jmiranda> but there's no "out of the box" support for hospital management
20:17:00 <jmiranda> (just to be clear ... that is a conscious decision)
20:17:53 <jmiranda> we want openmrs to be a platform that can be adapted/extended to be used in any setting
20:18:15 <SparFux> Well, still it might be OpenMRS is exactly what I am looking for. I want to integrate some patient data collection tool with ADempiere.
20:18:44 <jmiranda> there are a lot of systems out there ... there's probably some pretty good hospital management systems
20:18:46 <SparFux> Any setting with what goal exactly? Just collecting patient data.
20:19:14 <jmiranda> but i would take openmrs over any of them in a heartbeat
20:19:24 <jmiranda> because of the flexibility / extensibility
20:19:30 <SparFux> I don't find ANY open source HIS to manage operating-rooms and staff efficiently and create custom forms easily and report on collected data.
20:20:37 <jmiranda> openmrs was built around use cases that involve hiv/tb care in the developing world (mostly in africa)
20:20:40 <jmiranda> just to answer your question about "setting"
20:20:59 <jmiranda> but it's being used all over the place
20:21:05 <jmiranda> haiti, pakistan, u.s.
20:21:18 <SparFux> What's the goal? collecting data, not?
20:21:19 <jmiranda> in addition to 12 or so countries in africa
20:21:21 <jmiranda> yes
20:21:30 <jmiranda> it's a clinical repository for patient data
20:21:56 <SparFux> So, at my hospital, it should be the right tool for the physicians and nurses. They all just collect data and have it aggregated in some other way.
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20:22:06 <jmiranda> yes
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20:22:33 <jmiranda> and you can use another system for handling inventory
20:22:50 <jmiranda> another tool for handling operating room management
20:23:00 <jmiranda> and link those to openmrs (if necessary) through a module
20:23:34 <jmiranda> for instance, you need the drug order form in openmrs to be sent to the pharmacy for fulfillment
20:23:40 <SparFux> All the work is just data entry and data presentation and that's it. I don't want a software to give a diagnosis or interpret anything or check a patient, I just want to flexibly be able to enter data in an efficient way over the web and have the data put in reports for the specific patient. plus I want to be able to query the database and do epidemic analyses and other statistical stuff.
20:23:44 <jmiranda> you could have a form in openmrs save the drug order
20:24:30 <jmiranda> and then have a module trigger an event that would send an email or message to your pharmacy system
20:24:51 <SparFux> Yes.
20:24:56 <jmiranda> openmrs seems like the way to go then
20:25:11 <jmiranda> but look at some of the other systems as well
20:25:21 <SparFux> Well, so far I cannot even access my tomcat6-admin, crap.
20:25:24 <jmiranda> not sure how they compare
20:25:34 <jmiranda> :)
20:25:49 <jmiranda> check the conf/tomcat-users.xml file
20:26:06 <SparFux> I did.
20:26:08 <jmiranda> are you trying to start tomcat?
20:26:25 <jmiranda> or just access it from http://localhost:8080
20:26:25 <SparFux> no, it runs. I connect to 8080 and get hte page. then in manger/html I get no access.
20:26:33 <jmiranda> ok
20:26:36 <SparFux> HTTP Status 403 - Access to the requested resource has been denied
20:26:44 <SparFux> though I put the password in tomcat-users.cml
20:26:45 <SparFux> xml
20:26:50 <jmiranda> yeah in 6.0 i think they made it an add-on app
20:26:56 <jmiranda> so you have to download it
20:27:00 <jmiranda> (the manager)
20:27:10 <jmiranda> because it was a security hole
20:27:15 <SparFux> I have the manager installed in my debian.
20:27:22 <jmiranda> ok
20:27:39 <jmiranda> oh you're trying to login and its giving you the 403 error
20:27:45 <SparFux> yes.
20:27:58 <jmiranda> your tomcat users should have a user that has the "admin" and "manager" role
20:28:23 <jmiranda> SparFux, so are you a java developer?
20:28:40 <SparFux> nope. unfortunately not.
20:28:52 <SparFux> in the long run I will become one, though.
20:29:05 <jmiranda> do you know any other languages?
20:29:29 <SparFux> It's just like I am a physician at a hospital doing everything on paper. I am fed up with that and I see a heavy disadvantage in the way hospitals are organized. I don't get analysable data!
20:29:42 <SparFux> C, bash I know.
20:29:48 <jmiranda> (oh and to finish the conversation from before, i would encourage you to join the implementers and developers list)
20:29:49 <jmiranda> lists
20:29:51 <SparFux> and I did some lisp.
20:29:56 <jmiranda> cool
20:30:17 <SparFux> Yes, I am primarily an implementer as of now.
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20:30:30 <jmiranda> yeah, so that list is awesome
20:30:39 <SparFux> Anyway, I feel the responsibility to gather data and to analyse it for gaining knowledge about stuff.
20:30:53 <jmiranda> you should give a shoutout and let everyone know what you're trying to do
20:30:54 <SparFux> what list?
20:30:58 <jmiranda> implementers list
20:31:02 <SparFux> ok.
20:31:04 <jmiranda> so you are a physician?
20:31:08 <jmiranda> where?
20:31:09 <SparFux> Yes, surgery.
20:31:14 <SparFux> in germany.
20:31:18 <jmiranda> oh wow
20:31:44 <jmiranda> my girlfriend is in her 3rd year of med school, doing her surgery rotation now
20:31:52 <SparFux> And it's a pain in my soul I have wasted 7 years writing on papers and typing data into system so expensive only retards could have bought them and closed like bank tresors.
20:32:06 <SparFux> where is your location?
20:32:14 <jmiranda> u.s. (madison, wi)
20:32:23 <SparFux> ah, far away :-)
20:32:35 <jmiranda> do you guys have health privacy laws in place in germany?
20:33:07 <jmiranda> one of the pains of implementing system in the U.S. has to do with HIPAA
20:33:27 <jmiranda> ... of implementing health information systems ...
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20:33:33 <SparFux> Well, at least in germany surgery is a tough call. It's hard to learn anything and you don't get much support. In case your gf feels like doing time in germany in surgery give me a call. I think I can do sth for her then and it feels the right thing to help sb out with a connection to a developer of some OS system like OpenMRS>
20:33:35 <jmiranda> which is a good thing
20:34:09 <SparFux> Yes, we have. As long as you are using LAN it's not such a big deal though.
20:34:33 <jmiranda> we're definitely planning to head to africa at some point, but i think i could live in germany for a few years :)
20:34:40 <SparFux> Most of the privacy required is myths and FUD. Profiteering gluttons don't want others to put effective systems into hospitals.
20:35:06 <jmiranda> that seems weird given that you have a single payer system
20:35:08 <SparFux> Well, if you come to germany, it'd be a pleasure to meet you :-)
20:35:16 <jmiranda> where in germany?
20:35:27 <SparFux> Nordrhein-Westfalen.
20:35:33 <jmiranda> we were trying to get there over christmas, but probably have to postpone for a bit
20:35:37 <jmiranda> nice
20:35:40 <SparFux> The City is Oberhausen (next big), or Duesseldorf.
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20:36:06 <SparFux> So perhaps it's going to be new years?
20:36:12 <jmiranda> cool Duesseldorf was in the running
20:36:14 <jmiranda> no
20:36:18 <jmiranda> we had a change of plans
20:36:25 <SparFux> ok.
20:36:27 <SparFux> pity.
20:36:31 <Mkop1> sorry for all this bouncing in and out, btw
20:36:38 <SparFux> np Mkop1
20:36:40 <jmiranda> need to stay in the u.s. because her brother is coming back from afghanistan
20:36:51 <SparFux> wow, international :-)
20:37:10 <jmiranda> he was supposed to meet us in germany, but got a longer leave so he's heading home
20:37:26 <SparFux> ok.
20:37:26 <jmiranda> yeah ... in the unfortunate way that americans travel internationally
20:37:35 <jmiranda> i.e. as part of the military
20:37:44 <SparFux> military?
20:38:06 <SparFux> are you a soldier?
20:38:07 <SparFux> :-)
20:38:21 <jmiranda> no ... my girlfriend's brother is
20:38:26 <SparFux> ah, I see.
20:41:13 <jmiranda> SparFux, well i should get back to it
20:41:15 <jmiranda> it was great talking to you
20:41:18 <SparFux> perhaps I have to configure something else for my tomcat6-admin to be accessible.
20:41:26 <jmiranda> check the logs
20:41:36 <SparFux> I will. get back to what? your work?
20:41:38 <Mkop1> SparFux: you might be interested to know, the founders of openmrs are actually physicians
20:41:42 <jmiranda> did you restart tomcat
20:41:47 <SparFux> I did.
20:42:00 <SparFux> I will investigaate this further. tomcat I mean.
20:42:05 <jmiranda> yes ... back to work
20:42:06 <SparFux> well, we should stay in contact.
20:42:19 <jmiranda> i'll still be around on IRC so if you need me just call me out
20:42:24 <SparFux> my email is jkl345 <at> gmx dott net
20:42:29 <SparFux> yes, and on irc :-)
20:42:32 <jmiranda> i just need to switch to another window to finish a merge
20:42:50 <SparFux> ok, I will go to bed soon anyway. it's evening here.
20:42:59 <jmiranda> cool, i'll send you an email in a minute ... just to make sure we have each other's contact info
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21:05:33 <OpenMRSBot> Recent updates in the world of openmrs: OpenMRS Changesets: Changeset [11361]: mailscheduler:Initial commit of module files <http://dev.openmrs.org/changeset/11361> || OpenMRS Changesets: Changeset [11360]: Initial import. <http://dev.openmrs.org/changeset/11360> || OpenMRS Tickets: Ticket #1948 (task created): Scheduler to run Data Export on a future datetime <http://dev.openmrs.org/ticket/1948>
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21:37:34 <OpenMRSBot> Recent updates in the world of openmrs: OpenMRS Forum: Re: API Exception on stand alone app <http://forum.openmrs.org/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=535#p1964>
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22:41:41 <OpenMRSBot> Recent updates in the world of openmrs: OpenMRS Changesets: Changeset [11364]: Visit Scheduler: added the option to unlock a schedule. <http://dev.openmrs.org/changeset/11364> || OpenMRS Changesets: Changeset [11363]: spreadsheetupload module: bugfix, and added ability to set workflow … <http://dev.openmrs.org/changeset/11363> || OpenMRS Changesets: Changeset [11362]: pihlesothotbupload module: use health center location for encounters and … <http://dev.openmrs.org/changeset/11362> || OpenMRS Modules: PIH Lesotho TB Upload 1.2 uploaded to OpenMRS Module Repository <https://dev.openmrs.org/modules/view.jsp?module=pihlesothotbupload&version=&1.2> || OpenMRS Modules: Spreadsheet Upload Module 1.2 uploaded to OpenMRS Module Repository <https://dev.openmrs.org/modules/view.jsp?module=spreadsheetupload&version=&1.2>
23:13:43 <OpenMRSBot> Recent updates in the world of openmrs: OpenMRS Changesets: Changeset [11365]: Visit Scheduler: adding OpenMRS license notice to each source file. <http://dev.openmrs.org/changeset/11365>
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23:45:45 <OpenMRSBot> Recent updates in the world of openmrs: OpenMRS Tickets: Ticket #1951 (task created): Implement a way to evaluate blocks of code that are not allowed to change the database <http://dev.openmrs.org/ticket/1951> || OpenMRS Tickets: Ticket #1950 (task created): Groovy Module needs to provide a convenient mechanism for other modules to evaluate groovy scripts <http://dev.openmrs.org/ticket/1950> || OpenMRS Tickets: Ticket #1949 (task created): Groovy Module needs a groovy script editor widget that can be included in other pages <http://dev.openmrs.org/ticket/1949> || OpenMRS Changesets: Changeset [11366]: Merging branch testathon into trunk * Includes @shoulds, test cases, and … <http://dev.openmrs.org/changeset/11366>